#zaurus 22-aug-2002

<NovakMark> Stop now
<darienm> Stop what, exactly?
<NovakMark> anything further is just hurting yourself
<darienm> What do you want me to stop, exactly?
<NovakMark> trying to get into my machine
<darienm> I am not trying to get into your machine.
<darienm> Not in the least.
<NovakMark> thats not what youve told me, or what my firewall has been telling me
<darienm> If I browse your site (same as telnet to port 80) I'm not getting INTO your machine. I'm asking it for information, and it decides whether or not to deliver it to me.
<darienm> The same holds true for ANY port on your machine.
<darienm> I am not trying to get INTO it in the least.
<NovakMark> I dont care how technical your excuses are, it showed up as high rate
<NovakMark> and thats enough
<darienm> And, I would believe, neither is anyone else.
<darienm> If your firewall is working, then why are you paranoid?
<NovakMark> all I need is what my firewalls allready told me
<darienm> You should be pleased that (1) It detects such things (2) it reports them to you (3) you know how to read the reports
<NovakMark> I shouldnt have to do any o that
<darienm> You are absolutely correct. That's the firewall's job.
<darienm> I would stop worrying if I were you.
<NovakMark> that room also tells me "nothings unhackable"
<NovakMark> why shouldnt I worry?
<darienm> The people in the room are 99.9% correct.
<darienm> A few things are unhackable.
<darienm> But you have to understand the difference between someone walking up and down your street and looking at your house from the sidewalk, versus walking up to each door and window and tugging on it.
<NovakMark> If you were in a room full of technical nerds who spend 18 hours a day behind a terminal, who are now threatening to get into your box
<darienm> Not one person threatened to get into your box.
<darienm> Not ONE.
<NovakMark> wouldnt you still be worrying
<NovakMark> My box is so slow right now from the amount of hits you guys are putting on it
<darienm> Well, you have only yourself to blame for that. You piqued our interest, and some of us in the room want to see what you're made of.
<NovakMark> right there
<NovakMark> is that not a threat to get into my box?
<darienm> You didn't have to come across all aggressive and mighty.
<darienm> If you were at a homebuilder's convention and said "I build the best damn fireplaces in the world" don't you think some of the other builders would want to come to your house and look at your fireplace?
<darienm> Is that somehow a threat?
<NovakMark> this is different
<darienm> No, its not.
<NovakMark> I store personal information on this PC
<darienm> Really it isn't.
<NovakMark> stuff that could ruin me
<NovakMark> if you hackers got ahold of it
<darienm> Again, I direct you to the fact that not one person had any interest in getting into, or getting data out of, your PC.
<NovakMark> excuse me?
<NovakMark> Ive got logs of the "Microsoft -IIS5.1"
<darienm> Can you show me a quote from any person in the room that said they wanted to get INTO your PC?
<NovakMark> is that not trying to take data from my machine?
<darienm> Take data? From IIS? That's your web server. You are actively PUBLISHING that data.
<darienm> You are in control of that data.
<darienm> If its in a public directory, being served by IIS, then you are handing it out for free.
<darienm> We are not taking it.
<darienm> (not in the forceful sense)
<NovakMark> my internet has been cutting off, the connection to my server attempts have tripled
<darienm> Really, you practically INVITED all the members of the channel to test your security.
<darienm> You claim you're on a unix box -- but you're certainly running IIS/Windows.
<NovakMark> Im claiming im on a Unix box so you hackers don't try to get into my machine
<NovakMark> if I said "im on a completely hackable machine, with no protection" you hackers would have a field day
<darienm> You made the proclamation that password security was enough security.
<NovakMark> for VNC
<darienm> Mark,
<darienm> Lying to us doesn't help your situation.
<NovakMark> truely
<NovakMark> check the logs, scroll up
<NovakMark> my VNC security is as complex as my password is
<NovakMark> I said something like that I believe?
<darienm> Unix boxen are 100 times more interesting to "look at" then Windows boxes. You would have been safer saying you were on Windows, we probably wouldn't have cared.
<NovakMark> now that I know that, next time I walk into a room full of you hackers ill know what to say to stay on the safe side
<darienm> just tell the truth.
<darienm> and we'll say "okay"
<darienm> I have to step away from my desk for 5 mins.
<darienm> back.


<DaleNovak> what does /dev/null mean?
<darienm> its literally the 'nothing bin' on unix.
<darienm> it means "take this stuff and just get rid of it"
<DaleNovak> oh
<darienm> its like where files go after you empty them from the recycle bin.
<darienm> to "nowhere"
<DaleNovak> thanks
<darienm> Be honest please, and don't take offence to my question because I think the answer will help us both. How old are you?
<DaleNovak> hackers >/dev/null
<DaleNovak> Ill put that information on a .txt file on my hard drive, youll have to hack it out o me
<darienm> That's not a friendly answer, after all the time I've spent with you, educating you and calming you down.
<darienm> Why are you hiding it?
<DaleNovak> thats not a friendly question
<darienm> Asking your age?
<DaleNovak> dont expect me to give out personal information to strangers on the internet who commonly hack
<darienm> Its personal, but not unfriendly.
<darienm> People are asked their geographic location all the time to make it easier to communicate with them. There are subtle differences in perception between geographic regions, ethnic backgrounds, ages, schooling, etc.
<darienm> Nobody claimed to be a "hack" in the channel either.
<NovakMark> your not going to get personal information out of me
<darienm> Hey, you could just say "no thanks" without being rude.
<darienm> I'm just trying to better communicate with you.
<darienm> Can you tell me which decade of your life you're currently in?
<darienm> There, not so personal, right?
<NovakMark> far too specific
<darienm> Which quarter of your life are you in?
<darienm> first 25 years, second 25 years, third?
<NovakMark> between the first and second
<darienm> Thats immensely helpful, and didn't cost you a thing.
<darienm> I'm 32 by the way.
<NovakMark> nice to meet you
<darienm> I have two children, two boys, aged 13 and 11.
<NovakMark> Darien Michael Kruss
<darienm> I live just outside Chicago IL USA.
<NovakMark> I grew up in Chicago
<NovakMark> just north of Roger's Park
<darienm> You mentioned that to me earlier.
<NovakMark> I remember my childhood days as a boy, going to Wrigley field to see mickey mantle
<NovakMark> mr. cub we used to call him
<NovakMark> and 'Ronnie Woo Woo'
<NovakMark> (he used to yell the player's names until they tipped their cap)
<NovakMark> hed say
<NovakMark> Mickey WOO
<NovakMark> mickey WOO
<NovakMark> and finally Mr. Cub would tip his hat, and Ronnie woo woo would cycle to the next out fielder
<NovakMark> did you grow up there?
<darienm> Been in Chicagoland my whole life.
<darienm> Was Mantle with the Yankees?
<NovakMark> im sorry
<NovakMark> I meant.. Ernie Banks
<NovakMark> mr. cub
<NovakMark> that was back in... early 70s
<NovakMark> I think he retired 73
<darienm> So you were obviously born in the 60's.
<NovakMark> I didnt say that
<darienm> You said in your childhood you watched a player who played in the early 70's. If you had been born before 1960 then you'd be almost a teen by the 70's. You weren't born in the 70's or you'd have been an infant.
<darienm> It doesn't take a scientist to figure it out.
<NovakMark> I aint tellin you nothin
<darienm> You don't have to. It comes out n casual conversation.
<NovakMark> <Neo|Work> this channel is flooded with hackers
<darienm> interesting quote.
<darienm> I've yet to meet a single one.
<NovakMark> crunchy just said he was a hacker maybe you should talk to him
<NovakMark> tell me Mr. Kruss
<darienm> ?
<darienm> People call my father Mr. Not me, usually.
<NovakMark> have you ever hacked, or had relations with one who did?
<darienm> Back in the early 80's, before Time magazine ran that front-page article about HACKERS, I was involed in that movement. Not since.
<NovakMark> I see
<darienm> That and the visit from the Chicago Bomb and Arson squad kinda made me change course.
<NovakMark> and this illegal group of terrorist hackers, did they do any major attacks on any major companies or websites?
<darienm> I had a BBS running, and they were concerned that some kid would try and make napalm out of dishwasher detergent and vaseline.
<darienm> Um.. we're talking the early 1980's here. There were no websites, and the only thing your modem demon dialer could connect to were the occasional school computer, movie theater, library, etc.
<NovakMark> and this illegal group of terrorist hackers, did they (including yourself) ever hack into any school computers, movie theaters libraries, or etc?
<NovakMark> are you proud that you deaced what engineers and programmers spent long and hard to create?
<NovakMark> defaced
<darienm> It wasn't illegal back then :)